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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:43 pm
User avatarPosts: 1137Location: Cheadle/Leamington SpaJoined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:00 am
you can bond carbon fibre to various substrates, you can use industrial adhesives but these usually require an expensive process to do it, asons are all bonded composites aluminium and steel. alot of adhesives these days are stronger than the substrates they bond so that shouldn' be a problem. it's making sure you have the correct chemistry going on! I'l find out the exact method and products for carbon fibre to steel if anone is really that interested ;op



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:27 pm
User avatarPosts: 177Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 4:00 am
I,m interested, I thought that something like the adhesive that lotus used to bond their elise chassis would do the trick despite needing rivets to reduce the peel effect of the glue. It should be possible with todays technology to produse something that would work. To be hosest I would have thought that the mastic baced glue used to bond windows into cars would work on the bacis that most modern cars include the bonded windows as bodly streangth, Of course taking into consideration that the car in question has a full bolted in roll cage kind of changes the limits of structurall regidity hence making the tention provided by a normal roof pannel redundant & cosmetic, Just my 2 pence worth as an interesting subject :)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:26 pm
User avatarItsukiPosts: 4790Location: TeanJoined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:00 am
Call me a tit, and I'm also not arguing a point, but hasn't the owd aluminium bonding been around for donkeys ears? All commercial planes are bonded aren't they, as the glue allows for flexibility in the wings and stuff.
Saying that, maybe I answered my own question - maybe for bonding cars you need a stiffer bonding agent, I suppose you don't want the floor of your Elise to flex downwards 3" when you hit a bump in the road, or the doors in your Aston to not clsoe properly once you've got in, lol!



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:31 am
User avatarCridaperPosts: 13970Location: WolverhamptonJoined: Mon May 31, 2004 4:00 am
Technology is one thing, industry is another. While bonding techniques may exist in some sectors like aerospace actually transfering the technology over to another sector like automotive isn't always as straight forward as you'd imagine.

First a the market has to have an opening to justify the product, in the case of Lotus they saw an oppotunity for a small light sports car but the technology needed developing before they could mass produce it.

There is a development and analysis procedure that then has to be followed. I supplier has to be found who can manufacture and deliver a product to the right spec, often this third party will have to co-develop the technology with the car manufacturer, they may have to be ready to make their own investment to mass produce the final product. A whole process has to be created from speccing application tools to training individuals and all the surrounding issues such as health and safety.

It's only at that point can the car manufacturer even begin to look at the logistics of implementing it on the production line and then the engineers and managers will have to battle the cost cutters to justify what the expense of the new system will gain in production cost and sales.

The great advantage though at this point is of course you own the technology and have the links with the suppliers. And therefore you then proceed to sell it to other car manufacturers, and therefore it ends up on dozens of new cars.



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