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<  Workshop  ~  Spitfire Rebuild - From darkness to light...

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:54 pm
User avatarHulkaruthersPosts: 5017Location: London, The SouthJoined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:00 am
Way hey! A whole section for me to ramble on!

Well you may remember I had a bit of a whack. Whilst sorting out the bonnet etc - we found the chassis was bit twisted. Not from the crash - but it's always been like that since I've owned it. So errr... what's a boy to do with a slightly bent chassis? Change it of course. As everything else is coming off (engine & gearbox, front left suspension tower, front right suspension, and the entire rear suspension...) it makes sense... no really... it does...

So a new chassis is being sourced. I would have never imagined in my wildest dreams that I would be redoing the chassis on my car! Well not this year anyway... it'll be welded up (needs some extra mounts put on etc) and then blasted, zinc primed and coated. Lubberly...

Engine still isnt done - but is going to be better due to the delays (time to fabricate some manifolds so I can use my huge-valve-ported-head)

New wheels have also been found - a superb bargain - assuming they will fit under the arches - 6J beasts... (don't snigger at the back - I consider 185 tyres wide!)

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Another bargain, new rear suspension - a proper system rather than the does-the-job Spitfire one. No more wheel camber based on the height of the car or amount of roll! Will be all adjustable... nice! As Homer says... mmm donuts!

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So no more of this!:

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God knows when the car will be done now... it should be superb when done though!



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:50 pm
User avatarPosts: 177Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 4:00 am
Its amasing just how much is gonna change on this car just from a couple of accidents, The wheels are looking good JC I've always liked Revo's.
Its sooooo frustrating about that bloody chassis though :?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 7:42 pm
User avatarHulkaruthersPosts: 5017Location: London, The SouthJoined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:00 am
Bah bah bah bah bah - I'm lovin' it

I'll have a whole new car - bestest Spitfire ever!



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:44 am
User avatarCridaperPosts: 13970Location: WolverhamptonJoined: Mon May 31, 2004 4:00 am
I would have thought 185's are like grass rollers on a car that size, about time someone put some proper width on a spit (hint hint Dawson).

Are the Revos staying white or are they getting a respray?

That suspension system looks interesting, what's going on there, you have like a lower wishbone and then a sort of universal joint in the middle of the drive shaft?

Any "what the romans did for us" type diagramage gen?



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:19 pm
User avatarHulkaruthersPosts: 5017Location: London, The SouthJoined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:00 am
185s will look a bit wide on an early Spit - 185s on late Spits like Daws' are quite common place. What people don't realise is that if you put wide tyres (and I mean 185s) on the back of a Spitfire it screws up the suspension totally - you have a ton of grip in a straight line - but as soon as the car rolls it pivots around the edge of the tyre - which works ok on something 165 or so because it's round and flexes - but a 185 has stiffer sidewalls and more square edges - so the middle of the tread lifts off the ground when you go around corners.

Only way to defeat this is to make the car roll less - so you have to make it stiffer than Dawson meeting Lisa Snowdon...

Revos are going to be black, naturally.

The suspension system is off a GT6 Mk2 (and late Vitesse) - its a genius system only let down by the rather large weight (that cast lower wishbone weighs over 2kg alone)

The driveshaft pivots around a UJ on the diff (as usual) and then the rotoflex donut coupling closer to the hub (as used on Lotus Elan, Formula Ford and Ford GT40s) - the vertical link pivots on the lower wishbone (the big fat cast thing, and also an adjustable trailing arm that goes forwards) - the usual transverse leaf spring holds the vertical link at the top and acts as a top wishbone.

We're going to make up a set of lightweight adjustable tubular lower wishbones for my car too - to replace the heavy cast thing. The Green car has these - and allows camber adjustment.

Not sure about the "what the romans did for us" - however a 1300cc Spitfire (plastic bodied I think) with the same suspension system (but with two tubular lower wishbones on adjustable mounts) held the lap record at Mallory Park for bloody ages back in the 70's... not saying that my car would be anywhere near as quick of course! But this particular system works well...



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:47 pm
User avatarItsukiPosts: 4790Location: TeanJoined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:00 am
JC wrote:
Only way to defeat this is to make the car roll less - so you have to make it stiffer than Dawson meeting Lisa Snowdon...


And thats stiff. Oh yes.

On a complete thread stealing note, I'm getting slightly wider tyres on the owd girl soon Walley - 175/70s all round, and I'm getting them in the frankly down-right dirty tread pattern (for wee 13s) of the Goodyear Eagle Ventura... dirty pigs...

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:53 pm
User avatarCridaperPosts: 13970Location: WolverhamptonJoined: Mon May 31, 2004 4:00 am
Matroooooooooooon!

Good lad, you finally have tyres as wide as my little sister.

But seriously good ode it will look the mutts love spuds from the back.



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:55 pm
User avatarHulkaruthersPosts: 5017Location: London, The SouthJoined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:00 am
Just wait till he sticks the long shafts he's got on the back - 1 inch wider track and it fills the arches so much more... plus better handling...

That'll pimp proper then...



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:58 pm
User avatarItsukiPosts: 4790Location: TeanJoined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:00 am
I am tempted with the hub and halfshaft rebuild plan now I have some spare. I just daren't do all that work, stuff them on the spare diff, lob it all on the car and find out the diff has shat all but 3 of its teeth out in its lifetime :)



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:05 pm
User avatarHulkaruthersPosts: 5017Location: London, The SouthJoined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:00 am
You can always open the diff and take a look-see inside... or as I said, swap the input/output flanges...



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:24 pm
User avatarCridaperPosts: 13970Location: WolverhamptonJoined: Mon May 31, 2004 4:00 am
I'd be very suprised if you had a buggered diff Daws, I would have thought they are pretty agricultural? Would be funny if it turned out to have a completely different final drive though LOL Can't you just turn it and see anyway?

It will be interesting to hear how the wider tyres do effect the handling, especially in the wet. With the Spit being so light I would have thought 175s are as wide as you should before there's risk of aquaplaning.

MiniSport used to advise not going wider than 165's on Mini's due to their light weight, I have to admit that the 175's that my Mini had when I bought it were scarily bad in the wet, but the later ones I bought were infinately better.



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:31 pm
User avatarItsukiPosts: 4790Location: TeanJoined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:00 am
Yeah the one I have when I turn by hand is very smooth and checking each flange there's only what you would imagine to be natural play between the teeth - no huge jumps and its off a 75,000 mile car, so it -shouldn't- be fookered!
It should be a proper 1500 diff too, which means the diff is a 3.63 instead of a 4.11 - proper cruiseriffic if it all works!

As for tyres, frankly it handles so petrifyingly in the wet at the moment, these new ones -have- to be better, lol!



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:44 pm
User avatarHulkaruthersPosts: 5017Location: London, The SouthJoined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:00 am
MWF wrote:
I'd be very suprised if you had a buggered diff Daws, I would have thought they are pretty agricultural?


Consider that they were designed for 948cc Heralds!

MWF wrote:
It will be interesting to hear how the wider tyres do effect the handling, especially in the wet. With the Spit being so light I would have thought 175s are as wide as you should before there's risk of aquaplaning.


There have been plenty of people who have proved that 155-165 is the best choice for handling on a Spitfire. Nobody listens to them though...

MWF wrote:
MiniSport used to advise not going wider than 165's on Mini's due to their light weight, I have to admit that the 175's that my Mini had when I bought it were scarily bad in the wet, but the later ones I bought were infinately better.


Probably very good advice! My 145s have never aquaplaned once...

That tread on the Ventura looks promising - if I was going wide I'd go for that - as it seems to make sense to get something that is less likely to aquaplane rather than a summer grippy tyre.



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:55 pm
User avatarCridaperPosts: 13970Location: WolverhamptonJoined: Mon May 31, 2004 4:00 am
The cut of the tyre does seem to make all the difference. The Dunlops I first had on the Mini were a very ordinary looking cut and as mentioned would try to sail the car into a ditch at the first sniff of water. Sadly at the time they were the only tyre avilable in that size. The replacements though, wow, seems someone actually worked out that since the tyre was only going to fit a small car before they designed it. These tyres had a huge deep groove cut down the center like two tyres had been joined together. In some respects completely pointless from a performance point of view since the extra width of the tyre over a 165 was thin air but it fixed the problem nicely and looked good.

Agreed though, those Eagles look like they'd be fine.



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:58 pm
User avatarHulkaruthersPosts: 5017Location: London, The SouthJoined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:00 am
That's what I was thinking - a nice compromise. Wide, good looking and no aquaplaning with a bit less grip all round - rather than wide and lethal but great in the dry or narrow and good in the wet.



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